Avoid Buying A Salvage Vehicle - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 12/10/2015 at 09:25 • Filed to: None

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I’ve written about salvage vehicles before. And most of the time I hear about them is when someone ends up with one without quite knowing how it got into their driveway.

Vehicles get salvage titles for a reason, and sometimes they even get “rebuilt salvage” titles indicating something or other. There is a lot of confusion in this area. Yes, I know there are a few guys out there who have knowingly bought salvage vehicles and gotten good deals on them.

What I am warning against is getting one of these vehicles dumped on you without you knowing the full truth. And, just in case you don’t know, I explain what “rebuilt salvage” really means. (Hint: It does not mean the car is as good as new. In fact, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .)

So, here is the audio:

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And the video:

And the pic at the top is a Dodge Charger Daytona that is at about 110% salvage. I posted the other end of it a few weeks ago. And that was the pretty end.

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 23 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

Vin > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:30

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In b4 Tavarish protests.

theprepper > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:33

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I’ll definitely be listening to this once I’m finished being productive at work. Thanks a lot.

jimz > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:38

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But how else am I to get an M5 for the price of a 1983 Plymouth Horizon?

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:39

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So would a Charger Daytona like the one pictured that has been rebuilt to the point where the only original parts left are the Vin and Fender Tags be a salvage vehicle?

Le Monstre > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:46

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Steve, I have a guy at my work who’s moving, and is literally giving away a GTA he has, but there is a catch. He bought this car 15 years ago from someone in another State. At the time the guy said he had to find the title and when he found it, would mail it to him. For some time he had tried to get a hold of the person, and when he finally did, the person threatened for more money ( He paid around $500 for it, and the guy wanted another $1,000-1,500)or he would never get the title. What are his options at this point, and what legality does he hold on it since having it for 15 years? And no, he didn’t get anything in writing ( I told him that was a stupid mistake right there.)

SteveLehto > theprepper 12/10/2015 at 09:48

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Trying to show off? Stop being so damn productive!

dave the swede car guy > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:50

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the Guys at Graveyardcars would call this an opportunity

SteveLehto > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 12/10/2015 at 09:50

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VINs and fender tags on this thing were long gone.

SteveLehto > dave the swede car guy 12/10/2015 at 09:50

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Mark Worman chimed in when I posted this shot on Twitter and he agreed it was beyond salvation.

theprepper > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:51

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Not really, what I meant is I’ll be listening once I’m in break.

The being productive part is more a requirement than a feat :P

iska2000 > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:55

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“Theprepper, why the hell are you slacking off at work?”

“Uh... My LAWYER told me to, boss!”

That's gonna leave a mark! > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:56

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Disagree on one point. As I would buy a car only if it had a clean (no wrecks) title, I would ask for a Carfax first. Often sellers will offer these (check the date) and if not, I run my own. Less expensive than paying for an inspection. If the Carfax checks out, my inspection checks out and the price is agreed, then I spend more money for the inspection.

945T > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 09:59

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Good podcast. You can always tell the people that haven’t clicked the link in the comments. ;)

SteveLehto > That's gonna leave a mark! 12/10/2015 at 10:00

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Keeping in mind that Carfax misses stuff. Too many people think Carfax is foolproof. But if you then get your own inspection, you’re good.

SteveLehto > 945T 12/10/2015 at 10:01

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I’ve had a few already that have “objected” on the grounds of something I actually state quite clearly in the podcast (that is, I say what they are saying). If they listened, the would have known.

Thanks.

shadowx360 > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:11

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Especially in Florida, the police can't file a report unless airbags deploy, someone gets hurt, or massive damage occurs. Carfax is useless unless you want to find out if a car has been wrecked significantly before.

SteveLehto > shadowx360 12/10/2015 at 10:14

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I say that Carfax is good for red flags. But if it has none, you cannot assume it caught everything.

RSA > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:14

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Hey, if I ever find a car with a salvation title I’m going to buy it to drive straight up to heaven. :-)

Mopar4life > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:15

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Salvage vehicles have to be inspected to be titled. Meaning they are roadworthy. Many are rebuilt back to exact factory specs. Many have been totaled from a minor accident.

Conversely, I have looked at clean titled vehicles that were in major accidents, but because it never got reported, they got half-ass fixed and sold as clean title.

I would much rather buy a clean, properly fixed salvage titled car than a pos with a clean title.

Before someone chimes in with CARFAX, come into the light people. It’s a 3rd party that can only post what’s reported.

RedPir8Roberts > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:16

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Very informative as always, Steve. I’d add (and you’ve probably covered this elsewhere) that buying a car at auction, even from a government entity, is a crapshoot with no guarantees—despite, as you mention here, CarFax thinking it’s not a problem if a car is sold at auction. People seem to ignore the “as is” disclaimers, no matter how many there are. I knew someone whose husband had bought his dream car, a BMW 850, a few years back at a county auction. The car looked good, he bid and won, and the first time he tried to fill it up he found the gas filler was so messed up he could not put fuel in it. Upon further inspection, the car had been badly hit and was so bad he opted to sell it at a huge loss. I can’t even imagine how that would feel, on several levels. Salvage cars are all over Craigslist, often with the seller saying they know how to rebuild the title and that the car’s fine, the silly insurance company wrote it off for a scratch, all damaged parts are replaced and it’s good as new.

SteveLehto > Mopar4life 12/10/2015 at 10:17

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In Michigan, the inspections do NOT mean they are roadworthy. That is the most common misconception in this field. The inspectors DO NOT even drive the cars before certifying them. They ARE certifying that the car is complete and none of the parts on it are stolen.

I suspect this is true in many other states as well.

SteveLehto > RedPir8Roberts 12/10/2015 at 10:18

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AND, many auctions don’t let you inspect the vehicles more than to eyeball them from a few feet away. Which means that as-is designation is almost guaranteed to come back and haunt you.

Thanks for the note.

AverageMechanic > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:20

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As someone who is currently driving a ‘rebuilt salvage’ 2014 sequoia Limited, I hate that because some crapholes who dont know how to fix cars give salvage a bad name.

I bought our truck from copart, it was a very basic front end hit w/airbag deployment. No frame involvement, no suspension, no engine damage, under 10k in parts including all airbags required. 6k miles, perfecly clean interior. I dont know the circumstances, but if this vehicle was towed to our shop, it would clearly NOT have been a total. But it was deemed that way in Virginia, and now i’m driving a 50k truck i’ve got about 25k in. Their loss is my gain, the truck is repaired properly to factory specifications, using factory parts, and you cannot tell anything has ever happened to it.

Lesson here: dont run away screaming from a salvage vehicle, but get the real story. I’m keeping the repair order and photos of damage and ‘in process’ for when i go to sell the truck, so the future buyer can see the damage and repairs.

CleverUsername > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:21

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Finally, a professional weighs in on this.

It’s amazing to me how many people swear that their salvage titled car is totally worth the same or only slightly less than a clean titled car.

Junker_CM > RSA 12/10/2015 at 10:23

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My girlfriend had a 5 series beemer that was a salvage... It was a piece of crap that needed to be Mickey Moused to work. I’m so glad she finally just bought a new Rav4, at least that thing will keep running with abuse.

SteveLehto > AverageMechanic 12/10/2015 at 10:23

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Not sure if you listened to my podcast but I am not disagreeing with you. My point is that you need to know what you are doing if you do buy a salvage vehicle knowingly. And you need to protect yourself from buying one unknowingly.

AverageMechanic > That's gonna leave a mark! 12/10/2015 at 10:24

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Well.. i’ve owned two cars that should have been a ‘total/salvage’ but because the owner was driving without insurance, there was no entity to total the car or tell carfax. A car’s carfax will show up clean if its fixed w/o insurance by an indi shop (or their neighbors brothers uncle who can fix stuff). A good visual inspection done by a collision shop IMO, is much more of a safeguard.

Junker_CM > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:25

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Well, if you repaired that “little” dent yourself... Then no one has to know ;D

AverageMechanic > Mopar4life 12/10/2015 at 10:26

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It was a process to get mine inspected and passed, but in the end it was only an inspection of paperwork, not really the truck. The inspector glanced at it, saw it was ‘fixed’ and was more worried about invoices and state payments.

I agree with your main point, but sadly state inspections on salvage repaired vehicles falls far short of what they should (at least in FL, your mileage may vary)

BaconSandwich is tasty. > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:27

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I guess I must have been a lucky one. My current car - a 2001 Civic - had been rear-ended prior to me buying it. It was $3k less than any other similar Civics. The repairs looked like they had been done well enough, and I didn’t notice anything odd on the test drive (no noises, no pulling to either side, etc), so I bought it. 161,000 km later, it’s still running fine.

I don’t think it was really deserving of a rebuilt title, though, as the rear damage wasn’t really that bad. So maybe my story doesn’t count.

Mopar4life > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:28

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Nor does a clean title.

SteveLehto > BaconSandwich is tasty. 12/10/2015 at 10:29

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I have no qualms with people who buy them knowingly and price them accordingly. My problems are 1) people who buy them not knowing what it really means and/or 2) buy them without knowing they are buying one in the first place.

bryanska > CleverUsername 12/10/2015 at 10:29

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I sold mine for about 10% less, but it took a LOT of maintenance records, new parts, and a full detail to get that price. Even then, I had to find the perfect buyer who appreciated all that.

I’d say a salvage title is a fantastic way to save money, but there is a time investment to make sure it isn’t a huge loss on the resale end too.

SteveLehto > Mopar4life 12/10/2015 at 10:33

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Which is why I recommend you get any car you are going to buy inspected.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:33

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I totally agree. I’m very leery of anything with a salvage title unless I (and a mechanic) get to have a very good look at it.

As it is, I plan on driving the Civic until it dies, so at least I won’t have to deal with selling a car with a rebuilt title. :P

jimmy-buffett > jimz 12/10/2015 at 10:37

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No, seriously, it was a rear end collision and all the damage was to the rear bumper and trunk lid. The engine’s fine and the car tracks straight, no alignment problems.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:43

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It all depends on what you’re looking for and what you plan to do with it.

Cars and trucks end up as ‘salvage title’ for all sorts of reasons. It can be as dramatic as it was nearly cut in half and remade from two cars, or as mundane as it had hail damage?

The salvage or rebuilt title says something about the vehicles history, but not everything. If you can get a hold of an insurance adjuster or investigator with access to the ISO system, they can pull up the type of damage (collision, hail, total theft) and the dollar value of the loss. Even if you don’t have access to insurance investigators, sometimes you can search your VIN through the auto auctions. Sometimes you can find photos of pre-repair photos.

These can be awesome indicators of how made it was and if you should or shouldn’t.

Are you buying a daily commuter that you plan to carry liability only, not in a major collision and drive it into the ground, I say go for it.

Keep in mind, getting ‘full coverage’ insurance may be nearly impossible.

Also, if you plan to sell it, you won’t get jack for it either.

Lastly, some state mandated total loss threshold. Let see if this pastes.

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You can see that in Texas, if the value of the wreck is 98% damage, the insurance company can fix it.

In Iowa, that threshold is only 50%. In my states, it’s 80%. Fifty seems really really really low to me. 100% is obnoxiously high.

Lastly, i somewhat disagree with the idea that insurance companies always want to fix the car. Insurance companies want to get out from the pain and the costs. If they adjuster in your state has a 75% threshold and wrote the car to 70%, and they still don’t have the hatch open and the right door is crushed shut and won’t open, they are very likely looking at a lot of hidden damage which will push it over the top. The another alternative is called a ‘constructive total loss’. It basically adds up all the projected costs and sees which is lower, the repair bill + all other costs or just sending it to the bone yard. Let’s pick on a 2011 M-Class hit in the back

$8500 visible damage

+$2500 suspected hidden damage (frame rail, trunk floor, weird electrical stuff in the floor of those cars...

+$900 rental for 30 days

+400 towing

+275 storage

+(here is the kicker) projected salvage bid they could expect if it went to auction $5500

$18075 total cost versus a $24000 retail sale value

This car is getting totalled for what ‘looks like’ a $8500 claim.

Trust me, quality workmanship and expensive Euro-parts, $8500 is not a lofty repair bill. Rear or side hits are more likely to be a constructive total loss than a front hit, becasue that’s where the valuable salvage parts are.

Some (shitty) supervisors want to fix everything cuz they go home and joe to the thought of forcing people (especially claimants) to accept things they don’t like. Other (shitty) supervisors total everything and loss control gets out of hand and rates for everyone go up.

But when the Claims metrics are tuned correctly, they are looking to get out of the claim for the fewest dollars.

Vin > 945T 12/10/2015 at 10:46

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This. It's painfully hilarious.

SteveLehto > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 12/10/2015 at 10:46

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Very cool info. I cannot speak for ALL adjusters but I think they GENERALLY would rather fix something that deem it a loss if they choice is up to them and all else is equal. I have seen some crazy ones where shop after shop said a vehicle was a total loss and the insurance company kept shopping until they found a shop that said it could be fixed.

Vin > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:47

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Someone called me?

AverageMechanic > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:48

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No, i’ll admit it, i’m sorry i haven’t listened yet. I’m in my office right now with no speakers :( Looks like we are in agreement then. It was more a response to the title of your post “avoid buying salvage,” so i made the ASSumption that your stand was stay away from them.

Nuh Uh _ B6 > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:52

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Absolutely correct, a lot of people think having a clean Carfax make the car golden. Obviously that’s not true, if a owner of a car crashes the car, and pays out of pocket to fix it and does not report it to insurance the accident will never go onto the Carfax. So that clean title car someone is buying has actually been crashed before.

SteveLehto > AverageMechanic 12/10/2015 at 10:53

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Titles to pieces can never carry the nuance of the full article.

Let me know your thoughts afterwards.

Nuh Uh _ B6 > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:57

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California is really different in this sense.

If you buy any salvage title car from an auction, the only inspections that the car needs are.

1) Brake and lamp inspection (Visual inspection) (can be done at a smog check station if they are certificated).

2) Vin verification (make sure the vin on the dash matches the vin under the hood and in the door.). This can be done by any certficed person, so a cop, or a smog check station.

3) Pass smog check

If you buy a car in California from the auction, you can pass all the inspection at your local smog check station. All of these inspections are a joke, and by no mean make the car “safe”. The only thing these inspection really do is make sure you have brake pads and rotors and your lights work.

the dude > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:57

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Same way in Kansas at least concerning my bike when they totaled it. Luckily I had a donor engine frame and title to say my parts ALL came off this bike title. **COUGH COUGH**.

CleverUsername > bryanska 12/10/2015 at 10:59

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Given that time = money, the only way that I would consider a salvage title car a good deal is if I bought it for its scrap price. To me, anything more isn’t worth the risk.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 10:59

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Oh I disagree. The adjusters around me got as nervous as the customers if a car got too close to the threshold. Only tears happen when you sunk 50 hours into a car and THEN declare it a total.

We were not shopping for total losses, but at least then the outcome is certain.

Part of it was the human part.of the job. A corporate douche with cash for a down payment and a brutal argument about diminished value is getting a total.

A single mom who is upside down in her loan and has no cash for a down payment is getting every partial loss nickel wrung out if the job.

ScottsMerkin > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 11:11

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Was recently at a Honda dealer and had an enlightening experience. I was looking at a car and noticed some damage to a rear quarter panel. I thought, hey maybe I can get a nice discount if I offer to buy it but have them fix it. My thought was, I could get a discount for their being a ding on the CarFax. Well to my surprise, they told me, no, in fact I would not get a discount for that reason because if they (the Honda dealership) fix it at the body shop their will be no CarFax report of the damage or fix. And in fact, they would then make it a certified Honda Pre-Owned vehicle purchase. They went as far as saying that if anyone fixes a wrecked car and doesn’t use insurance to do it, that there will be no record of the damage or fix. Is this true? I always just assumed that a Certified Pre-Owned was a vehicle that had never been wrecked and was in pretty much perfect shape.

SteveLehto > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 12/10/2015 at 11:14

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And that is part of the problem: Some states do not have diminished value claims. So the insurance companies don’t care about “fixing” a car with a ton of damage.

SteveLehto > ScottsMerkin 12/10/2015 at 11:16

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CPO doesn’t mean what most people think it does.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/when-your-cert…

bryanska > CleverUsername 12/10/2015 at 11:17

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I saved about $4k overall, so it worked out for that period in my life. I needed a reliable car during our first baby, and I got a Honda Fit for $4k less than normal. Since it was a simple car, the risk was minimal. I sold it for $600 more than blue book but only because I’m a super anal car maintainer.

move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 11:37

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Coming from insurance, I’ve seen a lot of salvage, and I generally give the same advice on it.

Personally, I wouldn’t buy a salvage car. If you’re feeling daring, though, you can do well with them. Stay away from late-model expensive car salvage. That 2013 M5 you’re looking at for half of what it should be wasn’t a total loss for “a minor front end accident, bumper, hood, headlights, radiator”. $70k cars generally become total losses because of $70k worth of damage, or unreplaceable parts (say, the engine was pushed back into the firewall and the firewall needs to be replaced). That old Volvo 850R you're looking at buying with a salvage title? It very well could have been totaled because of a fender and bumper.

If you’re going to buy a salvage car, your best bet is to buy it from the person who totaled and repaired it. Before you buy, get pictures of the car pre-repair and a copy of the estimate/work order the car was repaired under. If you can’t get those things, walk away. If you can, get a copy of the estimate that totaled the car as well (this can be tough. as an adjuster I learned to never give that estimate to a customer. I can tell a couple stories if anyone is interested).

If you can get those things, and still feel comfortable buying the car, knock yourself out. But understand that what you’re buying has a good chance of being an absolute nightmare.

Steve, FYI, some states have different classifications of salvage. In Virginia we have "rebuilt salvage" and "repaired salvage". It's been a few years since I totaled a car, but I believe that rebuilt is for a car that was between TL threshold and 90% ACV, and repaired was for everything over. That may be backwards, though. But good to keep in mind for those states that discriminate between levels of salvage.

felverfelv > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 11:46

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It’s really not a bad idea if you know what you’re getting yourself into and just want a beater. Lots of good cars get totalled for just cosmetic damage. Just don’t expect to get top dollar when you go to sell it!

sobe_death > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 11:47

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I don’t know if this will ever be un-greyed, but I’ve appreciated/lamented the label for a while. It has protected me from buying a couple of basket cases, but I also own a never-wrecked S2000 with a salvage-rebuilt title. A couple of years ago, somebody slashed my top and stole my seats, stereo, and shift knob. The seats in an S2000 cannot be purchased as an assembly from Honda, but must be pieced together and thus start to be VERY expensive. Add in the labor for assembling them, plus the 10 hours book labor to install a new top and BOOM, totalled car. The car is pristine and well-maintained, but I know I’ll never be able to sell it for what it should fetch :(

Buckus > Vin 12/10/2015 at 11:48

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He could probably fix that Challenger at the top with some body parts he found in an empty field.

SteveLehto > felverfelv 12/10/2015 at 11:48

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Which is one of the things I say in the podcast.

sklooner > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 11:52

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Up here in Alberta the inspection requires before photos, a repair plan, list of parts replaced then it is physically inspected and aligned - hard to get some past this and because it costs from 4-600$ not worth it in a lot of cases and they make sure that even parts that weren’t touched are good like brakes bulbs etc

Xplorn > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 11:53

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I’d only buy a salvage car if I knew them inside and out and what I was doing. In my case, I’ve no problem buying a salvage Toyota 4x4 pickup or Land Cruiser because I can build one from scratch after 20 years.

But also have no illusions that to the next buyer, the salvage title is going to be a flag.

Mopar4life > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 11:54

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Agreed.

That's gonna leave a mark! > AverageMechanic 12/10/2015 at 12:05

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No disagreement, just saying it is less costly in money and time to START with a Carfax. No uses spending time or energy looking at anything that the Carfax already shows an issue.

Not stated so far is that re-selling a car with a salvage title or Carfax issue will take longer (assuming you are not purposely trying to hide). You got a deal on the buy side, you offer it for lower $ when you try to sell, but it will take longer to find that buyer.

cluelessk > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 12:06

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I work in a body shop and assist my boss in body integrities. A repaired car can be just as good as original but will never keep value.

The huge problem is backyard guys buying cars at insurance auctions and lie and cheat to get an integrity. Cars should only be sold to licensed repair facilities but insurance makes too much from uninformed backyard shops.

tsy1987 > move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop 12/10/2015 at 12:11

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I generally avoid buying salvage cars. I have a friend that buys them almost exclusively for the deal. Most all of them have just had really weird quirks that would make me totally back out as a buyer... but I guess as long as he’s happy and it’s his money...

Atohi Wesa > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 12:28

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Not all salvage vehicles are bad . As with any used car, if you know what you’re buying, you can get a great deal. My story isn’t really an example of that, but it could have been?

My wife had an 04 Suzuki Forenza (rebadged Daewoo) which she’d purchased new before we met. She bumped into the back of a Cadillac and the air bags went off in her Suzuki.

Not a scratch on it or the other vehicle, but repairs required two new airbags, a steering wheel cover, a passenger side dash cover, new seatbelt locks and a $900 airbag sensor that had to come from Japan, because manufacturers do dumb things with first model years.

The state police certified the the repairs, earning it a a salvage title, but it was otherwise as good as new...or at least as good as a new Forenza could be. Which isn’t very. Don’t buy one. But it was fine after that. For a little while.

Don’t worry, I’ll never let her own anything that awful again.

WOT is Love > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 12:38

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I’m not sure how relevant this is to the conversation, but...I was interested in buying a brand new car off a dealer lot once after I noticed it was priced WAY below (easily $3500 below lesser equipped models) market value. Apparently it had been damaged on the lot by a passing motorist who crashed into several of their vehicles. My concern was the resale value even though (according to the salesman) there shouldn’t have been any paper trail of the accident. The thing is, the lot’s insurance paid out to the dealership and they fixed the car themselves. I chose not to buy the car but occasionally wonder if I did the right thing taking a pass.

mad.anthony > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 12/10/2015 at 13:02

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A friend of mine had his ‘06 Vibe hit by a guy in a Prius with a PNKFLYD license plate who mistook the straight lane for the turn lane. He didn’t want the car totaled because it was paid off. It was about to be totaled, and then the insurance adjuster noticed the satellite radio antenna for one of those cheap aftermarket satellite radios. “Oh, it has satellite radio? Hey, it’s not totalled!”

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 13:08

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Sounds like a good candidate for a 24 hours of lemons racer... provided you got this particular example for nothing and a bunch of other stuff to make it go for next to nothing.

I’m imagining this brought back to life with a GM tech 4 engine/transmission taken out of an early 1980s camaro...

dannyzabolotny > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 13:22

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My favorite story from sellers is that the car has a salvage title because it was stolen and not wrecked. Yeah, okay.

D-Fizzle > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 13:22

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This is definitely true in Ohio. The inspection is simply for stolen parts. They don’t even care if the brake lights work...

dogisbadob > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 13:33

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oh it just needs a little sanding

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > mad.anthony 12/10/2015 at 13:36

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Yeah, um. You pick your battles.

ScottsMerkin > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 14:12

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Thanks for the link. So is it true that dealerships fixing damage to a car wont show on the CarFax

SteveLehto > dogisbadob 12/10/2015 at 14:48

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Simoniz it!

SteveLehto > ScottsMerkin 12/10/2015 at 14:49

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May or may not. It’s up to the dealer (if they report it or not). I’m not sure why anyone would report to Carfax but then again, a lot of stuff in this world makes no sense to me.

Needmoargarage > dannyzabolotny 12/10/2015 at 14:52

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I actually bought two of these recovered theft cars straight from an auction. One had a dent in the bumper, the other was flawless. Paid about half their blue book value. However, I would never ever trust that story from a private party seller.

dave the swede car guy > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 14:58

0

then it truly is hopeless? shame, I liked that generation of charger

SteveLehto > dave the swede car guy 12/10/2015 at 15:01

1

I love the 69 Charger and the Daytona in particular. Since they only built 503, they are all quite valuable. But, I suspect that this one is just a bit too far gone.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 15:12

1

As long as you know what happened to the car, you’re comfortable with it, and you can prove this story to convince the next buyer to be comfortable with it.

Pics of the “accident” or theft aftermath, along with repair invoices, would be good to keep.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 12/10/2015 at 15:14

0

Don’t forget a full frame straightening, reinforcement of fatigued (twisted) areas and surface restoration for next to nothing.

I wouldn’t be able to call this wreck an acutal “car” at this point.

SteveLehto > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 12/10/2015 at 15:17

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That is assuming you have that info. I hear stories all the time of things people were told by the sellers, who never seem to have such proof.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 15:22

1

I’ve never come across a seller with convincing evidence of an accident being “minor”.

Ironically, when I sold my car after a minor accident, I compiled the pictures and receipts for the new owner, informing him that I could send them to him. He never asked for them.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 12/10/2015 at 15:28

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Maybe take the body off and put it on a different frame... like a chevy S-10 maybe... which had one version (regular cab, long bed) with almost the same wheelbase (117” vs 117.9”)

PolestarBlue > sobe_death 12/10/2015 at 15:36

1

Or my Saab that only needed a grille and a hood. Now bears this spooky title. I’ve never been worried about a salvage title, and It’s safe to say that I’ve only owned one car without a salvage title :)

dannyzabolotny > Needmoargarage 12/10/2015 at 15:57

1

I’m aware that there are good deals like that. I just don’t trust sleazy Craigslist sellers to be telling the truth.

Richtofen, Baron von Pickup > move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop 12/10/2015 at 16:23

1

Excellent advice. If you’re happy to share some of your stories, I’m sure I’m not alone in saying I’d like to read them!

ronmler3 > Le Monstre 12/10/2015 at 16:35

0

Good luck getting a response on this.....

Hiroku > move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop 12/10/2015 at 18:42

0

That is a great point which I am glad you brought up so I don’t have to.

As a (coincidentally!) Volvo 850 owner, I feel that if some old lady lightly bumps my car while parking, the insurance company will just total it immediately. Not that I am worried about resale value when I bought it for near scrap money and plan to keep it until it meets its maker, but anyway.

I echo Richtofen’s comment, BTW. I’m sure you have many stories from the industry which would be of interest to most of us.

mk16 > sobe_death 12/10/2015 at 19:05

0

Well that was stupid that you let them write off your S2000 for seats and top, when all you needed was robbins top that can be purchased on ebay for maybe $400 and set of second hand seats for another $500 max + 1 weekend of work, and friend to help...

Chasaboo > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 20:58

3

Lately on Craigslist there have been dudes selling salvage cars that say, “I’m not afraid of buying a salvage car and neither should you be.”

So I emailed one of them and said, “Hey, you’re lucky, you’ve already got a salvage car, now you don’t have to go out and buy one.” He replied, “You idiot, I’m selling a car not buying.” Clearly, he never got the joke.

v8corvairpickup > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 22:05

1

Another thing to remember is that some states require a car with a salvage title be sold only to a licensed dealer or repair facility. Nevada is one of these states, a private party cannot sell a vehicle with a salvage title to an individual. I found this out in 2007 when someone in a ‘95 Rodeo ran a stop sign and I hit him broadside in my ‘98 Rodeo. The other guy’s insurance paid me $5700 for the truck and I paid $500 to buy it back with the salvage title. I then take my vehicle to the DMV for inspection after fixing the horn and am issued a rebuilt title and proceed to sell the Rodeo on Craigslist for $2100 with full disclosure to the new buyer. Not a bad return for a vehicle my ex and I bought before we divorced and she gave me outright in 2005 when she bought a new vehicle. And... No, I didn’t split any of the proceeds from the insurance or sale of the car with my ex.

Vic788 > SteveLehto 12/10/2015 at 22:26

0

sad man in the podcast cube says we all gotta listen to him and car fax. there are deals out there just need to look of them

Jugstopper > SteveLehto 12/11/2015 at 08:19

1

Ran when parked.

SteveLehto > Vic788 12/11/2015 at 08:56

1

I never said listen to Carfax.

SteveLehto > Jugstopper 12/11/2015 at 08:56

0

That’s what I think now every time I see a wreck or a car stuck in a field behind an abandoned farm.

move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop > Richtofen, Baron von Pickup 12/11/2015 at 09:01

1

So, way back when I was a young adjuster, I totaled a car (don’t remember what it was) that was reasonably nice, but had a good amount of damage on it. When writing a total loss, you generally eschew all the aftermarket/recycled parts and write for maximum cost, you know, to make the total easier. Our company policy was also to generally write to T/L threshold, put some extra in for padding, and stop. More damage written means lower salvage value. Also, don’t waste your time finding all the damage when it’s already dead. So there’s probably lots of stuff that’s damaged that’s not necessarily on the estimate.

So I wrote this car to probably 80% or so, stopped, notified owner of total loss, negotiated everything, owner kept the car, minus salvage value, and then asked for a copy of the estimate I wrote, so that he “had an idea of what needed to be done”. Well, little did I know that he would take a copy of my estimate to a body shop, not tell them it was a total, and authorize them to begin repairs. It was some shady little body shop that probably wasn’t too used to working with insurance and didn’t have any workers who were great English speakers.

I start getting calls from the body shop asking about a supplement (when the shop finds more damage not on the estimate). Typically, supplements get faxed into our central line and divvied out to adjusters on a location basis. I worked in a drive-in at that time, so I rarely handled supplements at all, field adjusters dealt with them. This shop is well outside my jurisdiction. I didn’t look it up based on claim number or anything, but I knew the adjuster in their area, told them to call him. I’m assuming they did, because I started getting calls from that adjuster asking why a shop was calling for supplements on a total loss. That took a solid month to sort all of this out, explaining to the shop why we weren’t paying them anything for this, explaining to the customer why we weren’t paying any more.

So, lesson learned. I made it a personal policy to not give out estimates on total losses. It’s not company policy, but we generally told adjusters to not give estimates on total losses because of situations like above.

A couple years later, had a similar situation.

I was a seasoned, savvy field adjuster now. Had a customer who demanded an estimate on his total. Being wise to the ways of the world now, I had done it a few times, with lots of caveats on the estimate, hadn’t had any more issues. So I put in all my caveats: a few free form lines at the top of the estimate that this was a total loss and that we were not paying for any repairs, no supplements would be honored, do not call me. Wrote in sharpie on the estimate the same thing. “Estimate only, vehicle is total loss, no supplements will be honored”.

About a month later, the customer calls me, screaming. I had written $7k on the estimate, but he took his car in for repairs and now the shop wanted $13k for the repairs (making up numbers here, but the repairs did end up being several thousand more than what I totaled it on, enough that it was too much for Virginia small claims court). He wasn’t going to pay it because it was a lot more than he expected, even though he would have had to approve the repairs from the shop. He said I should have told him how much it would actually cost, if he had known it was going to be that much he never would have kept the car, yada yada yada. I politely told him to pound sand (because we were very focused on customer service, which I generally sucked at anyway, but I tried). He called my boss, same story. My boss called me, told me that he was again told to pound sand, but also told me that the guy said he’d see us in court. Most of the time, when somebody threatens to sue their insurance company, nothing happens of it, because they talk to someone like Steve who tells them they don’t have a case, or they have a case and it just gets settled.

Ended up spending a day in court called as a witness in this case. Guy lost, of course, because his car is insured up to ACV, not for “whatever the repairs cost”. The guy represented himself, we had our staff lawyer. Our lawyer asked me questions for about 2 minutes about if this was the estimate I wrote and whether the vehicle was a total loss, the guy then cross-examined me for half an hour.

After that, it became personal policy to not do it, even with caveats. I pissed off a couple of customers in the future by refusing, but I’d rather have had them mad at me for a day than dealt with the potential ass-ache again.

move-over-peasant-I-have-an-M5-in-the-shop > Hiroku 12/11/2015 at 09:02

1

I try to avoid stories anymore, because they generally just make me mad and I start ranting about how much I hated that job, but I'll share as long as you don't mind rants. Typing is easier to control my rage than talking. See above reply to Richtofen.

velvet fog > SteveLehto 12/11/2015 at 09:14

1

Would never buy a salvage (in our area the term used is “write-off”) today, just too many complexities in modern cars - I’m thinking crumple zone integrity after a crash at the top of the list. That said, my second car was a write-off. ‘70 VW Beetle which had been rear-ended. The body damage was minimal but the engine was destroyed. The guy I bought it from, a former VW dealership mechanic and neighbour, told me why he’d got such a great deal at the insurance auction. The car was one of those automatic stickshift models, and the impact had compressed the seal around the torque converter leading to ATF pouring out onto the road. The insurance company, thinking that both the engine and transmission were shot, wrote the car off. The guy replaced the seal, installed an engine he rebuilt, did some fender repairs and put a new rear bumper on. For an 18-year-old, $950 (1979) was a great deal. I had the guy put a manual transmission in a few months later just because I wanted a REAL stick shift, Car ran great - until I lent it to some friends for a road trip and they drove it under a semi trailer. (All four were fine but my Beetle was a messy convertible. But the engine, trans, front-end lived again in the next Bug I bought.)

SilverBRADo totaled his beigeslushboxmatrix > dave the swede car guy 12/11/2015 at 14:17

0

It is an opportunity - to get tetanus.

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 12/11/2015 at 15:46

1

Indeed! I have seen CPO cars advertised, and when you dug into the CarFax report, the car has been a theft recovery. But of course the dealer ad made it sound like any other lightly used car.

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 12/11/2015 at 15:50

1

Steve, terrific article as always.

One of my pet peeves demands I nitpick. The phrase “VIN number” literally means “vehicle identification number number”. This is an all too common one, like “ATM machine” and “PIN number”. I can’t help but cringe a little when I hear those.

SteveLehto > ateamfan42 12/11/2015 at 16:05

0

In writing, I agree. Spoken, I think VIN is too easily misheard - it’s so short.

But there are a lot of those which have changed over time. Like “coed” or “alumni.” In anything less than formal writing, I think we have to loosen it up a bit.

I had a student get bent out of shape when I mentioned a “hot water heater.” Sorry, that’s a term of art now.